toomuchplor | Fic: How Not to Fly

OH MY GOD YOU ARE MAKING ME SO RIDICULOUSLY HAPPY, PLOR! With your writing! Of John and Rodney as I love them and laugh ~~about~~ with them!

♥

Ahem, um, I only now coming home and have not read; this is not a review. Just a preview. A squee-view.

Um.

Hee! I was going to ask, but now you've saved me the trouble.

A squee-view.

My favorite new word.

EEE THIS WAS FANTASTIC. You made me read it at work, but whatever--I loved it. Peej and Nora felt right on, and it felt right, too, that John would be so terrible at it at first, and that Ronon and Teyla would be so supportive and Rodney would be just exactly as he is. YAY!

Thank you so much! I'm so happy when I hear that PJ and Nora worked because they have become my dear little original characters and I am probably too fond of them by now.

Very nice!

And let me give a vote for you to someday write the mission report for the slug queen looking for the co-husbands mission. :D

So, I started writing this list as I was nearing the end of your marvelous story (a list of what I loved), because there was too much, and I was sure I'd already forgotten some of it. I definitely have forgotten, but I probably shouldn't try and summarize the whole thing. I am actually a little embarrassed by being so incoherent and long winded, so, short version: <3!

How Rodney follows his ridiculously romantic statements with self-congratulatory wonder
How John really isn't the best single dad
How Nora was secretly in love with Rodney!!! (or so I have decided)
How they are both kind of fucked up about Atlantis, but it'll be ok
OAKLEY. Ha, and how Rodney calls it the...what, ass-end suburbs of San Francisco? Seriously guys, move to a walkable urban neighborhood.
How John likes teaching math. (And how Rodney was kinda surprised he knew his stuff!)
How Rodney isn't nice to kids, but he's so awesome and honest that they love him anyways. Man, maybe he and Dave would have hated each other, but maybe not.

Oh my dear, the scene in the hospital, when they said goodbye, and all of the mundane details of life afterwards, I totally cried. I often feel the emotions in stories really deeply, but I so fairly react outwardly (crying, laughing) but this story brought me both.

TEAM. Oh man. How HAPPY they all were to see each other again, how well they fit together, and Woolsey and Lorne too. Telya's quiet sadness at being away from her son (I saw Teyla the leader of her people there, knowing she had to make sacrifices, and choices, even if they didn't make her happy) and how she was one John talked to about caring for PJ and Nora.

OH, and the kids! Oh, I loved them. I loved how they were so different, but were such good siblings. They really did seem like real people, not just plot devices. Ha, and Nora is only very bright. Oh Rodney.

Umm, but back to team for a moment: how Ronon didn't get it, and then did, and how that, having the whole team against him, was what prompted Rodney to lash out. I don't know that I've fully processed Rodney's decision, to leave Atlantis and wanting John to come and John not getting it. I wonder, if Dave hadn't been in the accident, what would have happened there? (Don't get me wrong, I like wondering, I just am not sure.)

"John can suddenly see all the places he was very nearly headed as he walked this path alone" GOD, yes, this. I just. It's somehow so perfectly real, in this really depressing way (John really can't do it on his own.) and it's all so clear in the moments leading to Rodney coming to him.

When John appears to save Rodney, that whole sequence is a perfect episode ending, John in black with his serious face and Rodney running after him, and the two of them working together on the AI. So so SGA, so Atlantis. And I love that John leaves as soon as he possibly can.

(I also love that I had to start this comment near the end, because I knew there was too much to say, and I would start a thought, and then basically see you finish it. Amazing. See below for an example:
I love that Rodney basically stays his asshole self. But somehow in learning how to read John, he learned how to be a little bit better anyways.
"except John’s had some practice at being patient since then, and Rodney’s learned to trust John’s instructions" YES THAT!!!)

I love that this isn't really a happily ever after. John is still going to long for Atlantis, Rodney will get bored without missions (they are all such adreneline junkies now). But within that, it's life. Not perfect, but very real. You make choices, they aren't made for you, and sometimes you're lucky and get to make the choices that bring you happiness.

OK, the main problem with you writing long wonderful stories is that it's very hard to get to the end because by then I'm completely addicted and don't want to stop.
This is how I got into fandom to being with!
I remember at some point a little way into the story that I idly wondered about what the title meant and how it applied. So the ending was lovely, wrapping up their stumbling crooked path to something that works, or has a chance of working. And they had to give up Pegasus so other levels of meaning there too.
So much I loved about this, but mainly how real it was and how true it rang to canon John and Rodney. Loved the depth of feeling you showed between them without ever having them make sappy Hallmark declarations. And the inevitable cruel arguments of course, especially when it seemed insoluble before Rodney finally got it. He always was brave.
Nora and PJ were great characters, utterly believable and individual. Obviously, the way you wrote it, the story has to progress through all the tragedy to the conclusion, but if Dave hadn't died and J&R had returned to Pegasus with Atlantis as per usual, I don't think they'd have made the relationship work, long-term. What with the Air Force and John too aware of his position, and DADT etc. So in a way the kids "rescued them right back".
Thanks, it was an excellent read, and chock full of life.

And let me give a vote for you to someday write the mission report for the slug queen looking for the co-husbands mission.

*snert* Oh, sometimes I wonder where that ridiculousness even comes from in my head.

Thanks, so glad you liked it.

Oooooh, such long feedback! Can I keep you FOREVER? *g*

How Rodney follows his ridiculously romantic statements with self-congratulatory wonder

LOL. My favorite part is that his "ridiculously romantic statements" would probably not soften a lesser heart than John's.

How Nora was secretly in love with Rodney!!! (or so I have decided)

You win the prize on this one! She has SUCH a big crush on him at first! (This totally dissipates on its own once she lives with Rodney for about two weeks and sees how annoying he is.)

Seriously guys, move to a walkable urban neighborhood.

Oh, they will. *g* I know, poor John. He is doing family life like it's paint-by-numbers: house in the 'burbs? Check!

Man, maybe he and Dave would have hated each other, but maybe not.

Dave definitely would have hated the tricks Rodney is teaching his kids. The kids, on the other hand, think Rodney is the bomb. I am picturing chemistry experiments in the garage and extended lessons on how to bully your teacher into raising your grades.

Telya's quiet sadness at being away from her son (I saw Teyla the leader of her people there, knowing she had to make sacrifices, and choices, even if they didn't make her happy) and how she was one John talked to about caring for PJ and Nora.

John knew she'd understand, I think. He's maybe come to respect Teyla's role as parent a lot more as he's watched her with Torren the last year or so.

I don't know that I've fully processed Rodney's decision, to leave Atlantis and wanting John to come and John not getting it. I wonder, if Dave hadn't been in the accident, what would have happened there?

You're free to draw your own conclusions there, but in my mind they probably would have broken up -- at least until Atlantis took off again. I ended up having to cut out a bit of backstory about the John/Rodney relationship here but in my mind they had a very on/off thing going on Atlantis, and had only recently really gotten back together after Jennifer left. John probably thought of them as amazingly close friends who sometimes had sex. Rodney obviously saw it a little differently. But they both wound up in the same place, I guess!

You make choices, they aren't made for you, and sometimes you're lucky and get to make the choices that bring you happiness.

This should be in my blurb somewhere! *g* Love it. And I'm glad you saw this as the point I was making. I've told a few other commenters that I don't see this as the most solid happy ending. It's a hell of a huge deal that John and Rodney have struck at the end of the story, and they are both putting a lot of pressure on their bond to sustain them through grief of several different kinds. The hardcore McSheppers (myself included) probably have faith that they will make it through but I can also imagine a world where it just doesn't work in the long run. Grief pushes people apart more often than it brings them together, after all.

(Don't worry, I have two codas up my sleeve that will hammer the happy ending a little more firmly into place. *g*)

Love all the thoughts you had while reading, and thank you so much for sharing them.

So the ending was lovely, wrapping up their stumbling crooked path to something that works, or has a chance of working. And they had to give up Pegasus so other levels of meaning there too.

Believe it or not, I found the poem right as I was wrapping up the last 20 pages of the story. I was hunting for a title, thought it should have something to do with flight, and found that little gem. I was talking to one of my betas online at the time and sent her the link, and at the same moment we both said, "THIS IS ABOUT RODNEY." And then, "THIS IS ESPECIALLY ABOUT RODNEY IN THIS STORY!" The amazing thing was that I'd already written the bit about John telling Rodney to try and fly straight, and the whole damn thing began with John negotiating a curved road with deadly accuracy (and Dave, of course, sort of failing to do so.) It was awesome serendipity, in other words, and I can't take credit at all. Mostly I'm just amazed that no one has ever used this poem for a title before, because Rodney is that loopy bumbling butterfly, stumbling into the right path over and over in all the wrong ways, he SO IS.

Loved the depth of feeling you showed between them without ever having them make sappy Hallmark declarations

\o/ I'm so happy to say I wrote this whole fic -- a love story, in essence -- only once using the word 'love' in reference to John and Rodney (and, that once, it's Rodney being kind of an ass.) The challenge was to make sure that the romance came through anyway, so I'm thrilled that you found it there.

Obviously, the way you wrote it, the story has to progress through all the tragedy to the conclusion, but if Dave hadn't died and J&R had returned to Pegasus with Atlantis as per usual, I don't think they'd have made the relationship work, long-term.

Agreed. Glad you see it that way too. In canon, Rodney is shown as searching for love and family and, in canon, that's not something John-on-Atlantis could ever openly provide. My canon for this story is that John and Rodney have been on & off for five years and that (from John's perspective, anyway) it's mostly an awesome friendship with occasional sex -- at least, when Rodney's not busy pursuing one girl or another. Then, suddenly, John can give Rodney the family and the love and the domesticity, and Rodney has to decide if that's what he really wants after all, when it means giving up pretty much everything else he loves.

So in a way the kids "rescued them right back".

\o/ Love it. What a great way of stating it. Thanks so much for the awesome feedback, and I'm happy to hear you enjoyed it.

Oh wow, I really enjoyed immersing myself in this world you've created. Wonderful story! :)

P.S. Rodney and Nora were adorable! And so were Peej and Yooge! *g*

You made me cry so hard with this adorable little (or not so little) story. I love the kids and have a desire to know more about what happens next. :)

I just have to second the Oakley? remark. You do sound like you know the Bay Area. Did/do you live here?

I took my time reading this so it wouldn't end too soon. I felt so bad for John. I knew he would take the kids though. Yay! And Rodney too, who doesn't know how to fix his unhappiness. I'm glad they ended up together in the 'burbs. Great story.

Did/do you live here?

No, I don't! (Truthfully? Never even been there. Bad me!)

Such is the magic of Google, I guess! Well, that and having a friend who recently spent a few months in the area. But I'm very happy to have given that impression. Yay!

Rodney and Nora were adorable! And so were Peej and Yooge!

\o/ Yay! I am so fond of those kids now. I'm glad you liked them too.

Thank you so much!

I love the kids and have a desire to know more about what happens next. :)

Stay tuned! No, for reals. I have two codas that I'll post next week sometime that will answer a little of "what happens next". I found, after I finished writing, that I needed to write another 10,000 words to really work everything out of my system!

And Rodney too, who doesn't know how to fix his unhappiness

Luckily he at least *tries* to fix it, unlike John who is stupidly resigned. *g* Thanks so much. I love lingering over a story, and love that you did so over mine.

Wow, I really loved this. The way that earth life is actually, you know, earth, and really complicated, and that there are no easy, perfect answers. (Usually I don't like fic where they have to give up Atlantis, but here I'm really glad that they decide to stay on earth, for the kids' sake. That is a lot more believable.)

Thank you so much! I knew not everyone would be satisfied with an ending on Earth, but as you say, it's for a pretty good reason. *g*

I love so much about this story! The kids are great original characters, and Rodney is fabulous as the most sarcastic, but actually pretty great, uncle. And I really like the structure - that it isn't until right after Rodney's explosion that we learn what happened right before the accident, that this is actually a continuation of the earlier fight between John and Rodney. I love that all of the relationships are complex, and that the problems of their conflicting responsibilities are not easily solved.

I think you do a great job of showing John (and Rodney, and Dave, in small bits) as a good parent who still makes mistakes and could do better. Most parents aren't terrible or perfect; they're somewhere in between.

Rodney is fabulous as the most sarcastic, but actually pretty great, uncle.

Thanks! I think it probably takes a strong dose of the Sheppard genes to create kids who understand Rodney's version of tough love, but happily Nora and PJ fit the description.

I think you do a great job of showing John (and Rodney, and Dave, in small bits) as a good parent who still makes mistakes and could do better. Most parents aren't terrible or perfect; they're somewhere in between.

Glad to hear you liked this aspect. It was very tempting to paint Dave as a bit of a villain (and I think Rodney, and to a lesser extent, PJ probably both think of Dave as a pretty crappy parent) but John's viewpoint came through without my intending it, and I began to concede that perhaps Dave wasn't all bad even if he was a bit of an absentee father a lot of the time.

Thanks for the feedback! Happy to hear you enjoyed the story.

Oh! This was so good!

I didn't even mean to read it, I was going to save it for later, (I haven't been reading SGA lately,) but I started and got caught up, and then I had to keep reading. *grin* I loved it!

Yay, I love the feeling of fic that catches you up, and so happy to hear mine did that for you!

I'll start by saying that this comment isn't going to be in any way long or detailed enough for the sort of feedback this story deserves. When I started reading this this evening I didn't realise quite how long it was. But now I've just got to the end of it and it's somehow getting on for 2.00 in the morning, so I think it's safe to say that it got me in. *g*

I loved everything about this story, but one of the things I loved most was the realisation about halfway through that you were going to go the whole way with this story. I've read some great longer stories (in various fandoms) in the past that stop a bit abruptly, and what to me would be some of the most interesting parts of the story get handwaved away. Thank you so much for NOT doing that. Everything that (I felt) needed to be in this story was in it and I thought it ended in just the right place.

Love your take on all the characters, loved how they sounded and how they felt. Lots of little things made me happy: the team arriving on the doorstep and the observation about how each stood out; the manner of Nancy's appearance and small but vital role, which I didn't see coming (but perhaps I should have); Rodney's conversation with Zelenka; Rodney being a dometic hero (to quote a friend I was IM-ing while we were both reading this); lots of other small jewels that I'm sure will come to mind again later.

I was also really impressed with how well you told the story of the terrible waiting at the beginning, the sadness and the coming to terms and, eventually, the grief. It felt very true. So did your child OCs. I really liked both of them, and that's a rare thing for me.

And I loved your John and Rodney. Absolutely loved where both of them were coming from, how they finally worked out what was the right thing for both of them, and how they managed to get there.

Reading this was also interesting for me because in the last week I've started work again on a story of my own that I started writing last year. It's also about John and Rodney on Earth together post-series, so I was mulling over the two of them in that situation (though some of the circumstances were very different) a lot right before reading this. The way they think and act in your story really rings true for me, fwiw.

Thanks. I love these guys and I miss them, and I really appreciate coming upon a story like this that makes me sit down and read about them for an entire evening.

Beautiful. Just beautiful. I think the thing I love most about your work is how...I'm not sure how to put it except real you make these characters feel. A kind of roundness and well-reasoned-ness (that's probably not even close to an actual word, heh, but it's what I mean) to their motivations. It's a true talent. I felt for everyone here, could see everyone's point of view.

Also, I'm not sure I can describe the grin on my face the first time Nora used her hard-wheedled cell phone to contact Rodney. The timing and pacing of that twist was just perfect.

In short: I loved this! And I feel like it gave SGA a shot in the arm at a time when it really needed it. Thank you. :-)

Everything that (I felt) needed to be in this story was in it and I thought it ended in just the right place.

That's wonderful to hear! I have read a few longer fics where the arc sort of collapses in on itself too so I'm very happy to hear that this didn't happen for you in this fic.

I really liked both of them, and that's a rare thing for me.

I think I'm especially pleased to hear this; it's probably plain that I have really gotten to like Nora and PJ so it makes me happy that others found them likable too!

Thank you so much for the awesome feedback, and I look forward to reading your new story whenever it appears!

Also, I'm not sure I can describe the grin on my face the first time Nora used her hard-wheedled cell phone to contact Rodney.

Poor John had no idea that's what she had in mind. *g*

Thank you so much! (And I totally accept well-reasoned-ness as a word.)

I've been pondering since Friday night what I could say to express how wonderful this was. I re-read 3/4 of the way through again last night and am still drawing a blank.

I love the characters you created with Nora and PJ... the most real and realistic children in any McShep kidfic I've ever read. I appreciate so much that you avoided making them adorable moppets or eccentric prodigies. Nora's similarity to John is brilliant - it makes Rodney take her seriously, and it's also so very believable: she's had to develop such self-control, like John, because her childhood has been so much like his.

The section with John and the kids in Oakley feels bleak. It astonished me that John would take them so far away from everything they knew, but it mirrored how John was taking himself away from where he wanted to be.

Such a powerful story. I know I'll read it again in the future, besides finishing the second time through tonight. Thank you so much for the many hours of writing it represents!

Thank you for this, very much. Thank you for Nora & PJ, & the Rodney & "Yooj" they bring out. Thank you for showing the tragedy so honestly, with details so true & vivid I suspect you've done a hospital vigil or two. Thank you for taking the path of resistance & struggle, that left me guessing about where they'd end up & with whom, rather than the feel-good route. Thank you for stopping at a convenient point with some ends still loose, rather than wrapping up the story, because RL keeps going after the last page. Thanks for sharing all this with us!

I love the characters you created with Nora and PJ... the most real and realistic children in any McShep kidfic I've ever read. I appreciate so much that you avoided making them adorable moppets or eccentric prodigies.

\o/ Thank you! I love a good fantasy kidfic as much as the next guy but honestly I prefer realistic kids (of which there is often a dearth in fanfic, I've found) so I'm so happy you appreciated this aspect of the story. Nora and PJ were also probably my favorite part of writing the fic, so I'm especially happy that you liked them too!

It astonished me that John would take them so far away from everything they knew, but it mirrored how John was taking himself away from where he wanted to be.

I think John couldn't surround himself by so many trappings of his own unhappy childhood and knew that he would be making a bad situation worse if he even tried. That's my take, anyway -- but I like your perspective on it as well.

Thank you so much for the great comment!

Thank you for showing the tragedy so honestly, with details so true & vivid I suspect you've done a hospital vigil or two.

Happily, most of my hospital vigils (firsthand) have been of the happy waiting-for-new-baby variety but I had a young relative with a severe brain injury while he was living abroad, and it was probably that experience (and my family's agony being so far away) that informed most of the Dave Sheppard arc. (My relative made a truly astonishing recovery against all odds, thank god.)

Thank you for stopping at a convenient point with some ends still loose, rather than wrapping up the story, because RL keeps going after the last page

This is great to hear! It wasn't possible for me (IMO, anyway) to create a 100% stable happy ending when so very much was on the line for John, Rodney, and the kids. (I do, however, have a couple of coda fics yet to be posted that may help wrap up a few loose ends anyway!)

Thank you for reading and commenting.

i don't read a lot of sga fic anymore these days, but i am very glad i decided to read this one. your major original characters were amazingly well-drawn. i love them both of them a lot. i found the atlantis/IOA/SGC politics angle for the post-series situation really interesting. i enjoyed this so much! *draws many hearts*

.... ♥♥♥♥

Thank you! I'm glad I could lure you back to SGA if only for a little while, and especially happy you found Nora and PJ believable. They have become real little people to me, so it's awesome to hear you enjoyed them.

Can I keep you FOREVER? *g*
Well, you might want to give me back, given that I have two other fics of yours open in firefox tabs waiting for feedback, and it took me however long to respond to your lovely comments here. (And in fact, I am only finally doing it, because you wrote a 5000 word coda that I must read!)

You win the prize on this one! YESSSS!!! I love winning.

Dave definitely would have hated the tricks Rodney is teaching his kids. True enough! I guess I was thinking in the back of my mind that Dave as a kid or some version of Dave who was able to act like a kid might appreciate Rodney, but like so much of your story, it probably would never have been possible for the two of them to know each other in that way. It's similar to how Atlantis can sometimes seem like this necessary stage that allowed John and Rodney to get to know each other and become friends.

cut out a bit of backstory Yes, I wondered! At one point John thought about the years they'd been together, but Atlantis had been grounded less than a year and there were Jennifer mentions, so interesting! I didn't mind that the backstory wasn't there though, and I liked the hints of it throughout.

This should be in my blurb somewhere! Aww! This totally made me smile.

It's a hell of a huge deal that John and Rodney have struck Yes, that's it exactly! And as much as I (total hardcore McShepper as well) absolutely believe they will make it, and totally can't wait to read the coda all about it, I so love that this part of the story isn't sure. It's just very human, and makes them, oh, I don't know, more admirable, or braver? I mean, they are both dumbasses, in ways that I totally love, so maybe it's not completely eyes wide open, but I love that they're willing to take the leap without themselves knowing how it's going to turn out.

I mean, they are both dumbasses, in ways that I totally love, so maybe it's not completely eyes wide open, but I love that they're willing to take the leap without themselves knowing how it's going to turn out.

When you put it that way -- Rodney's right, he's devastatingly romantic and stuff. *g*

Well, you might want to give me back

NO! *clutches you tight*

Incredibly awesome! I really love the kids here, how loveable they are despite all their problems, all their complicated humanity and kid-ness. And that Rodney would see John keeping them as throwing his life away the way Jeannie did makes perfect sense for what we know about him. And the end just makes me go all heart-clench, because of course they're better together, and I adore Rodney's revelation and his glee over saying three - count 'em, three! - genuinely romantic things in one day. :D

And that Rodney would see John keeping them as throwing his life away the way Jeannie did makes perfect sense for what we know about him.

Thanks, glad you agree with me there. Rodney's so achievement-focused, I think some part of him would think of having kids as kind of a big time-waster. (Of course, in a little while he'll get a taste of that reflected parental glory thing and it'll all change quite a bit! *g*)

Thanks for the great feedback! Glad you liked it.

Oh! OH! I've had this open in a tab since you've posted it, and finally had a day at work when I could read it all, this and the codas.

LOVE IT. It's a bumpy road for them, and so real-feeling, and so THEM. I love the kids (I just about want to trade in my kindergartner for PJ right now), especially the way they bonded differently to John and Rodney. (If I'd been Nora, I would have been crushing so hard on Rodney, too!) I know it's a nervous road with OCs, and even more with kids, so I wanted you to know how amazing they are, and how much richness they bring to your characterizations of John and Rodney. And team! Go Teyla and Ronon! They'd certainly be experts on dealing with orphaned kids. And everyone else - bless that wily Czech and Jeannie for beating Rodney with the clue-by-four.

There are a ton of things I could point at and squee about, but it would be super long and rambly. This was an absorbing rollercoaster - laughing to sniffling and back to laughing again. And your codas are a delight. Can I borrow Rodney to give my son the birds and bees talk? *grin*

*happy sigh* This goes on the read again list, for sure.

This was lovely. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I just about want to trade in my kindergartner for PJ right now

*g*

Thanks so much! I agree that having believable original characters when it comes to kids can be tricky, so it's great to hear that you liked Nora and PJ.

bless that wily Czech and Jeannie for beating Rodney with the clue-by-four.

*snert* Love it!

Thanks so much -- it's awesome to hear the particulars of what you enjoyed.

Thank you so much.

That was a really beautiful story. It surprised me how much I liked it considering John and Rodney left Atlantis but your characters were so vivid, especially the kids and the situation so realistic that I found the same contentment at the end that John and Rodney did, I think. Thank you.

Fic: How Not to Fly

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